Tonight's sermon: When Good Pet Owners Go Bad
I have an acquaintance here in Snobville who I'll call Wanda. Wanda's daughter went to a sleep-over at the home of a prominent local surgeon. This surgeon is keen on a breed of purebred dog called the Rhodesian Ridgeback. The breed in question was created in Rhodesia, principally to kill lions.
During the course of the sleep-over, Wanda's daughter was cavorting with one of the doctor's Rhodesian Ridgebacks. The dog turned on her and bit her savagely. The surgeon, being a doctor, did some doctoring to try to hide the severity of the puncture wounds. But, I'm not sure how much later, Wanda took her daughter to a plastic surgeon and found out that the wounds were deep and would leave scar tissue that would never go away.
Needless to say, Wanda went to the police with this information and tried to have the dog in question put down as a menace. Wanda was unsuccessful. The local judge (who lives across the street from me) ordered the surgeon to install a fence around his property and put the dog in a muzzle when it went outside.
Some time after that, another of this surgeon's pack of four Rhodesian Ridgebacks charged a little boy out walking with his father. The little boy's mom was a prominent news anchor in Philadelphia until her son was born. Now the story got bigger. Another angry mother, demanding that these dogs be curtailed with due diligence.
One thing led to another, as it always does, and the various anti-Rhodesian Ridgeback complaints wound their way into county court. There the judge ruled that the surgeon could remove his fence and un-muzzle his dogs. The girl who got bit deserved it -- so said the judge -- and the business with the little boy wasn't serious at all. Just a dog being a dog.
Snobville is an old suburb, and the yards are very small. Mine is so tiny I don't even own a teeny iddy biddy dog. I can't imagine a dog being satisfied with my outdoor space and the twice-daily walk. I have to agree with the aggrieved moms that this town is not the proper environment for purebred dogs whose initial purpose was to kill lions.
What bothers me the most is that this surgeon is unapologetic for his canines. Maybe you can see his point of view, but I can't.
I love my cats and my parrot. I even put my parrot out on the porch in the summertime, where he could bite the moron child who stuck fingers into the cage. However, if my parrot bit a kid, even if it's my fault for putting the parrot outside, I would have the parrot put down. People come before animals in my book.
(I am fortunate that Decibel the Parrot announces his intentions before he carries them out. Otherwise I would never put him outside to begin with.)
It's my opinion that a biting dog should be put down, except in cases where the dog was being killed itself if it didn't defend its life. And certainly a person with the education it takes to be a surgeon should examine his priorities and not load his house to the plimsol line with dogs bred to be aggressive.
What do you think, reader? Should a dog that has bitten a teenager deep enough to scar her for life be allowed to roam the streets of Snobville, even on a leash?
I'm going to file this post under morons, not because I don't think anyone should own a Rhodesian Ridgeback, but because I think if you're going to choose to own four Rhodesian Ridgebacks, you should damn well get an acre of ground and a nice stout fence, liberally plastered with "Beware of the Dog" signs.
As much as I love all living things, if a dog charged my child, I'm afraid I'd ply the old Louisville Slugger with extreme prejudice. Which makes me a moron, too, I guess.
35 comments:
I'll have to post about this one on my own blog since I have too many questions and thoughts that would turn into a long comment. It's something I struggle with a lot.
I'll be curious to see what your other readers have to say though.
I have the same no love/hate relationship with pit bulls, which people insist are harmless unless taught to be vicious, which then begs the question, why are so damn many pit bulls attacking people? Do we have that many people training pit bulls to be vicious? They say don't blame the dogs, but who else DO you blame? I haven't seen them putting down any humans for the crimes they are trainging these dogs to commit. I'm sorry, but common sense tells you that people are NOT breeding pit bulls to be loving, gentle creatures that love children. That's NOT what these dogs were bred for, so why else would someone own one? No, I don't blame the breed overall, I blame the humans who created them to begin with, so let the breed die out, and put away the humans who breed them.
Almost ANY dog bite will leave a scar, the pressure is what does the damage. I have dog bites that did not break the skin and left scars (to explain, I trained police dogs at one time...they are supposed to bite you)
I would want to know more about the dog and the circumstances before I demanded that the biter be put down. It does make a difference.
The owner is ALWAYS responsible as far as I am concerned. I raised German Shepherds for 30 years and would be HORRIFIED if one of my dogs got out and threatened someone.
Rodesians are not, as a rule, an aggressive breed, however, they are a high energy breed and need a LOT of activity to take the edge off. Plus they were bred to hunt in packs so running a bunch of them together, not confining them safely and most important, having an ignorant and apparently untrainable owner is a disaster in the making.
He should at least be forced to confine them.
*sigh* I have seen so much of this in 30+ years of raising and showing dogs. Sometimes I think an IQ test should be required to buy a puppy.
Hey,how are you doing? Hope all is well.
I'll never forget the time, when I was only eight years old, that I saw my father kick a dog. He and I were out for a walk with my brother, who was only six at the time, when a neighborhood dog, chained up in a front yard and unattended, got off its leash and charged at us, teeth glistening. My dad scooped my brother up and yelled at me to run, and then he kicked. It's the only time I've ever seen my father commit an act of physical violence against another living being, and it's also the only time I've ever seen him honestly scared.
So I have to agree. As much as I am an animal lover and a pacifist, I do believe that a pet that cannot be contained should not be allowed near human beings, especially children, that could be harmed. Really, it's the same reason I'm against dog fighting and cock fighting--violence in animals is just as awful as violence in human beings. Animals in the wild will act violently to defend territory, food or a mate, but it seems this is usually just a last resort, the result of those things being threatened. But domesticated animals bred or trained for aggression, and then placed in circumstances where those aggressive tendencies have no safe outlet, have been denied the ability to respond "naturally." It is tragic, since in some ways it isn't the animal's fault, but the truth is, we would be reckless and negligent if we didn't ensure the safety of those with whom we live. Just like you don't keep a loaded gun just lying around, or a lit stove unattended, or the gate around a pool unlocked....
In my opinion justice would be best served if irresponsible dog owners could be ordered to be caged, muzzled, put down or at the very least neutered.
My BadKitty is not allowed outside to poop in people's yards or kill birds (also for her own health and safety as outdoor cats don't live long here)
I've had dogs, and if any of them had attacked anyone unprovoked, I'd have had them put down.
I had a HUGE Barred Plymouth Rock rooster once that got mean, he attacked me several times with his huge spurs, he stood just about three feet tall. I kicked him into the chicken coop and then he flew at me with his spurs out.
I realized that if my neighbor's three year old ever wandered over with his mom to feed the horses (I boarded theirs as well), that the rooster cold severely injure or maim him.
For that reason the rooster (named him Damian) was put down.
Pit Bulls are the Witches of the canine world.
Statistically, Labs and Cocker Spaniels bite way more than Pits, but you're not going to read this in the media-"Pit Bull savages human" makes too good a headline,for the most bloodthirsty, wantonly cruel and violent-for-no-reason-at-all species, which of course is humankind.
Many reported Pit bitings are not actually Pit Bulls - but we have our scapegoat, don't bother me with facts.
Human animals don't necessarily come before non-human ones either, in my book. Surely I'll defend those I love against anything or anyone, but we have to remember that humans have civilised themselves out of all connection to the rest of the world - the person bitten by a dog or bird is frequently to blame for behaving inapropriately, in the non-human animal's opinion.
My three Pits were not attacking the damn human who shot them dead. The autopsy has shown that they were shot while running away from him. He just bought into the demonisation of that particular breed of dog.
Love,
Terri in Joburg
((((Terri)))) -- who just lost her dogs to a horrifying act of human cruelty. The Michael needs to learn more about pit bulls, since they suffer far more because of uninfirmed views like his than any harm they cause. (Horses kill more people every year than do dogs of all breeds.)
I don't think that any dog who bites should be killed; circumstances matter. However, it seems clear to me that the Ridgeback owner in this case is acting irresponsibly; in no way ought he be cavalier about what his dogs have done.
I was an Animal Control Officer for 4 1/2 yrs. in the 80's.
The Dr. and the judge are in collusion. Plain and simple. They know each other outside of the courtroom in a very social way. Saw it all the time back then- the judge is not going to do anything to his friends' dogs- sadly, it will take the death if a very beloved froo-froo dog or a child to stop these agressive dogs because of the loyalty the 'upper crust' has for each other.
The place to go is to the Humane Society- here, where I live, they will not adopt out Pit Bulls, Fila Braziliaros, Cana's, or other big dogs like this because they are well known to have issues- the latter two breeds are S.American and were bred strictly for use as gaurd dogs for drug lords. With Pit Bulls, it is how they are raised and many get a bad rap becasue of it. Sad on that one.
If the guy's dogs are running loose in the road in the public right of way, you'll need to get pictures/videos of them doing it- it is ILLEGAL for dogs to be off their owners property in the public right of way in any state in the US. Cross onto a siodewalk in front of the property, or in the actual road, you got 'em.
If you can get a lawyer who will stand up to the 'good ol' boy' network, esp. if you have visual proof of breaking the law, you got a chance in court. Demand a different judge. If this Dr. is this way about his dogs, he surely has other folks who know how 'god-like' he is in his practice or other business dealings- it won't be just the dogs he acts this way with.
The Law is on your side- get copies of the Law and OWN the bstards!
Experts refer to these dogs as "Red Zone Dogs," "Ticking Time Bombs" or "Loaded Guns." Any way you choose to label them, these doggies are always in need of the immediate help of an expert who has the expertise in dealing with extreme dominance and aggression.
Dog Ramps
Rhodesian Ridgebacks were bred to CHASE lions, not kill lions. Overall, they are a very non-aggressive breed. Protective, yes; aggressive, rarely. But I agree that any dog that bites is a danger and should either be confined or euthanized.
Wow this story hits close to home for me. I had a dog as a girl that was part Rhodesian and he ending up biting a friend of mine, on her face... and mom put him down, no questions asked. I was heartbroken but I got it. It is irresponsible to keep those dogs in that environment. If any dog went after my kids, that would be the end of the dog.
The reason these discussions are so contentious is for the same reason that discussions about gun control are so contentious. Dogs, esp. big dogs, are like guns. If handled responsibly, they are unlikely to be a problem. If handled by an idiot: danger. "Dogs don't kill people, negligent dog owners kill people." A pet cat, parrot, or vulture (;-)) does not pose the same threat as a pet dog. If you can't manage the dog to eliminate the danger to other people, you can't have a dog.
I think any dog that harms a human--esp. a child--cannot be trusted not to do it again. They must be put down. I'm from a long line of dog people, but that's the only responsible action. The judge in this case will live to regret his decision if another child is menaced or harmed. As will the surgeon.
When I was a medical student here in SF I worked in the SFGH ICU right after the famous case of Diane Whipple, who died from bites from a pair of Presa Canarios. You can look her case up on Wikipedia. My senior residents looked ill as they discussed trying to staunch the bleeding from the punctures in her carotid artery. She died in their arms.
Though this is anecdotal, my father had Rhodesian Ridgebacks and they never harmed a soul. They are not a breed bred to kill lions, but to chase them until the hunter can get off a shot (just like fox hounds are used by hunters to chase foxes, not kill them.)
I have owned "fighting" breed and sheep herding dogs (both high energy) and they were trained and exercised. They never hurt a soul without cause either. (One of my dogs bit and untrained doberman who attacked me once.)
I think in 99% of cases the owner is at fault, not the animal. People do not take their animals to obedience classes or keep up that training or exercise them enough, and they often buy breeds that are not suited for their lifestyle. Like someone with the hours of a surgeon keeping such high energy dogs in the city is ridiculous. Punish the deed not the breed.
The only dogs I have been bitten (or nearly so) by are untrained dogs, usually smaller breeds. I guess no one reports chihuahua bitings though. I was laughed at by the police when I did.
Getting back on topic though, in the case of these dogs, I feel the owner is at fault. They should all be removed from him and he should be fined and banned from having any dogs ever again. The dog that bite the two people should be put down and the others should be placed in appropriate homes.
I think whether an animal needs to be put down depends on the circumstances surrounding the bite. If the bite is a result of deliberate physical abuse or intervention in a dogfight, then no (though the owner should be willing to take action to prevent such occurrences in future.)
However, a dog that bit one child and then charged another? Hell, yes.
That an adult would treat two such incidents as 'no big deal' really frightens me. Eventually, those dogs of his will kill or seriously injure a child. It's intolerable that he considers his 'right' to parade his aggressive dogs 'round the neighborhood of more importance than the safety of the children who live there.
I agree with the poster who mentioned that the judge and doctor are probably in collusion.
Firstly, Aquila ka Hecate - So Pit Bulls are the Witches of the canine world? I'd just like to point out that while some Witches are nasty, not all are. Please, don't buy into stereotypes.
I'd say that on the whole any dog that attacks people should be either confined or put down. Then again, things aren't totally black and white, so I'm not going to say that one solution fits all.
What I'm particularly horrified by is that the surgeon tried to hide how severe the puncture wounds were. I hope he was punished for that.
Sarita, context. Terri's (Aquila's) point was that pit bulls, like Witches, get unfairly scapegoated. This is a Pagan blog. We dig Witches.
How are big dogs not like guns? Guns have but one reason for being, one telos: to kill. Big dogs are beings and hence, for Pagans anyway, have intrinsic value.
Whoopsies...yeah, I know this is a Pagan blog. I just misunderstood what was being said.
I was wondering why no one else was jumping up and down.
My apologies, Aquila ka Hecate.
I agree that this judge and surgeon are probably country club buddies and have no interest in justice or public health.
It's patently stupid to have any energetic dog, big or small, in a small confined space without allowing for extensive exercise. In this case, although I hate to say it, I fear the dog should be put down. It's crossed the line twice and has probably learned by now that it can do so without consequences.
I was recently bit by my untrained basset hound (never really thought I had to train a basset) and although there has been little outward sign the internal tissues are only just now, after nearly 3 weeks, allowing me to type and work semi-normally. I can't imagine what a serious bite would be like.
And that surgeon is a way up near the top of the karmic shit list for letting this happen and then trying to cover it up. What a dick.
I think the guy should have his dogs taken away from him, and be denied any future dogs. He's definitely incapable of keeping dogs in a manner that is safe for them and for the community in which they live.
The dogs might actually be able to be rehabilitated. I've no clue what is involved in that, but I know there are people out there who devote their lives to rescuing and 'fixing' dogs.
It's too bad about the girl. She probably crossed one of the dog's boundaries, maybe unwittingly, maybe on purpose. Healthy dogs don't bite just for no reason. The one that charged was just protecting its perceived property, which doesn't necessarily share the same boundaries that humans see.
If I was a parent of one of those children, I would have pressed charges, simply because without a record against the dogs, in the eyes of the law the incidents never happened. Where we live, there's a "3 strikes" type of law, where the third bite is the death warrant for the dog. The third bite --on record--.
And that clause is to allow for dogs simply acting as dogs, defending their physical space, and their 'property' space.
wow..you really touched a nerve..I have had pitty bull dogs since 1972...dont' have one now but have had some great pitty bull dogs..2 of them were trained to fight..we rescued the first one and he was huge, and looked like a lion with his mane shaved off..his ears were chewed off, his tail was chewed down, he had scars all over his face and legs and torso...he was also the sweetest most gentle dog I have ever seen...maryjo was a litte over 2 years old and she would ride him like a pony, crank his tail, put her fingers up his nose, pull on his ears and tongue..and he would just lay there and grin..once he got tired of her messing with him and he sat on her and put both huge paws around her head, pinned her body and licked her till her hair was soaking wet and her face was dripping..she was hollowering to beat the band...when he got done he walked off and laid back down..she didn't mess with him after that..and this was a dog that was 11 year old and had fought all of his life...we paid $500 to rescue him so he could life out his final years fat and sassy...Nate my pittybull dog was 110 lbs. and thought he was a lap dog..would sit on your lap with his arms around your neck with his head on your shoulder...when my granddaughters came over he would be a nervous wreck by the time they left as he didn't know how to protect and guard them all at the same time..finally he hearded them into the corner of the living room and laid down in front of them so they couldnt move and fell asleep ...that dog that bit that girl should have been put down..but not all dogs that bite are guilty..some kids tease, and hurt dogs to the point where they act out of defense...
Rhodesian Ridgebacks can be fabulous dogs. However, like English Mastiffs (my favorite breed of all time, and the only reason I do not own one now is the depth of heartbreak I felt when my Morgan died of bloat at the age of eight), they are large, powerful dogs that cannot be allowed to be aggressive toward humans.
Mastiffs, fwiw, when properly bred, are not agressive. Their favorite way of defending against an intruder is to sit on them. (Since they can weigh over 200 lbs, its a winning strategy for them.) But responsible breeders are still very, very careful about who they place such a powerful dog with.
Rhodies, even more than mastiffs, need to be approached with care. Mastiffs were bred to do non-agressive guard duty around humans--ie, for a minimal prey drive. Rhodies have a powerful prey drive, and were bred for more rural settings, where aggression toward humans would be less of a concern. They have (again, unlike mastiffs) a huge need for exercise, require firm and experienced training and, like all dogs, behave differently in packs than as individuals. Anything more than two dogs counts as a pack, and only the most committed and experienced owners should attempt to keep that many dogs, of whatever breed or size, because pack drive can take even a normally sweet and biddable animal and turn them into something a lot more like a wolf than will fit well into modern society.
So, an up, energetic, aggressive breed such as a Rhodesian Ridgeback, kept unrestrained in a pack of four is Not a Good Plan, unless there is an owner who is utterly committed to providing those dogs with intense training and daily (also intense) exercise.
My guess is, this owner just liked they way the dogs looked.
That was a betrayal of a potentially beautiful and sweet-tempered breed.
Regardless, however, as an owner of a giant-breed dog, I will say without reservation that a giant breed dog that has attacked a human (as opposed to injured them accidentally, as in a game of tug--which is another no-no with giant breeds, btw) needs to be put to sleep.
Period.
Giant breed dogs without stable temperaments should not be allowed to endanger anyone, including other large dogs. Painful as that reality is, it's one that needs to be recognized.
But--let me say it again--when owned by responsible, committed humans, Rhodesian Ridgebacks are sweet, loveable mushes. (At least toward humans. I wouldn't trust them around lions!)
*sigh* Yeah, it needs to be put down or some other living alternative that keeps it from harming any.
That said, the JUDGE is the one that I'm astonished with. The kid deserved it?? OMFG.
And I'm so there with Celtic Rose. Severely Punish the dog owner.
Because yes The Michael there are a serious amount of people who love to have vicious dogs. And who make them so by their own human behavior.
I've seen dog abuse in public and stood on the sidewalk screaming "Bad HUMAN, BAD HUMAN." He stopped and sadly I never saw him with his dogs again. Those poor dogs.
I for one do not place human life higher than animal life, especially when a dog was trained to be that way. However, we simply do not have enough facts and since I believe that no law should be a blanket law, that circumstances should be weighed.
this is not an issue of the dogs fault - they were just not trained by the OWNER. they should be removed and trained.
next - parents should watch their kids around strange dogs...sorry but its true. dogs are pack animals and kids are small in size thus to a dog - "correcting a kid with a bite" is no dif than correcting a puppy - if that behavior wasn't trained out of them.
RR actually make good family pets - they were bred to protect families in africa...not just to kill.
Dont hate on the dog just the owner.
Having Ridgebacks for 27 years and volunteering with a Ridgeback rescue, I can assure you that Ridgebacks are a wonderful animal. In those 27 years, none of my Ridgebacks bit anyone and none of my rescue have either. I think we all need to remember it's the deed, not the breed. Responsible ownership involves socializing your dog and teaching it to behave in an appropriate manner. Sadly, the owner in question failed his dog miserably.
A friend of mine offered that nobody should have more dogs--of any sort-- than they have hands.
as to dog characteristics, i have a pit whom i'd trust utterly with anybody who treated him with the respect he's due. he's 70 lb of friendly, if not threatened...
the exception is other dogs. he's not real good with other dogs. he came to me full-grown. i do not really understand it...
btw, anne, you write quite wonderfully.
He has four of those dogs, and they have attacked people?? First, even though he is manifestly at fault, those dogs need to be put down. They have become dangerous. Second, that surgeon must be fined, at the very least. His negligence and cavalier attitude make him a menace.
I, too, once owned a giant dog, a Borzoi. He was actually extremely good around kids; in fact, we'd have kids that were afraid of dogs chase him around the yard. When he got tired of being "chased" about (Borzois can run about 40 mph, so the kids weren't going to catch him), he'd lie down, and the kids would gather around and pet him. They ended up not afraid of one dog, anyway.
However, Borzois are safe for one reason, and one reason only (and, by the way, they are hunting dogs, bred to catch and hold wolves). Breeders quickly put down any dog that shows aggression toward humans. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Actually it is not the dark side of pet love per say , its the dark side of pet responsibility. I recently purchased an 18 month Rhodesian from the local pound for my 15 year old ...its kind of a family ritual where the boys get their own dogs to teach them about responsibility of caring for another living thing. He is Big and in spite of his label at the pound "MIX" he is all Rhodesian. I chose him not so much for his breed (although I do love them) as I did his temperament and posture to our initial contact. The SPCA people thought me mad because he wouldn't sit still and kept jumping up , with his size this was intimidating to most being a dog lover / owner/ trainer all my life
I of course solved the issue post haste. I let all three of my dogs (Belgian Sheppard , American dingo, and Rhodesian) out into an unfenced yard ..they are watched but unleashed ...its about being responsible for the dogs. Dogs numbering more than two will show marked differences in their "Pack" behaviors one is a "pet" two is a challenge three or more you have a full blown pack. Inside a pack will always be a rigidly defined hierarchy and members will always contest and jockey for position so you had better damned site be an "Alpha" or raise hamsters instead...most of us tend to try to humanize our animals and although I agree they are definitely individuals and you cannot condemn a breed based on individual action of a dog. Male to female ratio will also dictate aggressive behaviors as will (as you correctly said)the amount of room an animal has to roam and burn off tension and energy. Diesel(Rhodie)in addition to being allowed to run the yard with the others and play is also walked for a min of 45 minutes a day as well or is extended a half hour playtime to burn off energy. If this is not done this can equate to restless and aggressive behaviors in un spayed/neutered animals. My guess is these breeds are expensive so the Doc may not have neutered his animals meaning to stud out the males. Also if he leashed them and walked them out in the neighborhoods it would familiarize the dogs with the inhabitants or at least the concept that other humans "belong" outside
and make most of the neighbors more confident in their presence. Point two is that one has to ask if the bitten little girl was familiar with animals in the first place most Rhodesian s I have known are pretty even tempered and will ALWAYS give signs and warnings , yet not all dogs do this the same , a wagging tail does NOT mean you are safe ...what it really means is the animal is "ALERT" and excited by something , my guess was the girl or a responsible family member was either not in view of this or not knowledgeable enough to know the sign but any breed when startled or alarmed will bite. And they(Rhodies) have one HELL of a bite and are god awful quick ...they do if not kill lions still hunt them. Actually its best to view unfamiliar animals like a loaded gun anyway. Always assume they bite cause well from gerbils to birds they WILL. Secondly you cannot fear them because that will lead to stupidity and tragedy as quickly as being cocky and too bold. My third point here is that more than likely Mom #2 if it is as elite a neighborhood as stated probably already knew of the first attack and was reacting more to hype than anything it may have even been deliberate to force their views and policies on a community "outsider or non conformer" yea inevitably we are the worst of all the species. Thirdly ...the surgeon was unforgivably irresponsible because even as a surgeon he needed to have the parents permission to treat the child in the first place ...he would need stitches if it wee my child ...however you pondered his reactions and this much may be true ...that he feared persecution and a witch hunt as many anti- dog groups do. Sadly as we can often see one bad decision snowballs to a point beyond all reason or justice.
There is no Guarantees as a pet owner but an understanding of the animals natural behaviors and not "YOUR" perception of what they should be is the first step to reducing risks for everybody.
Oh BTW I'm one of those weird Pagans that believes in guns and dogs and personal responsibility ...a moderate republican pagan ...well actually I have been labeled a libertarian ...but I digress
I own a ridgeback, and he is one of the best dogs I have ever seen, or had. Also this post was full of incorrect facts. Ridgebacks didn't kill the lions. Large groups of them would bay the lion so that the hunters could go out and kill it. Also I do not believe a dog should be put down for biting a kid. I think the owner should take the initiative and go and train the dog. After all it is always the owners fault, not the dog's fault. The owner teaches the dog bad behavior, and it becomes dominate, and uncontrolled. It is a dogs nature, and instinct to obey and please its owner, or pack leader, so if a dog goes around misbehaiving, do not blame the dog.
In April 2011 the owner of this dog had it put down after it bit another child. Lawsuits against the owner are still pending.
I am entitled to my opinion, especially since this is my blog. In my opinion, dogs that are bred for a specific purpose (i.e., chasing if not killing lions, or pulling sleds across the tundra) should not be the first choice for a lil' cuddle in the living room.
Anne Johnson,
You are a fucking idiot who shouldn't be aloud to speak your opinion to anyone.
....Put down your parrot.... your a fucking idiot.
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